8 9 10 Teves
Megilas Ta'anis states: "We fast on the eighth ninth and tenth of teves" The Tanna goes on to explain that on the eighth The Torah was translated to Greek during the reign of King Ptolemy , the ninth the Chachamim did not explain why and the tenth was the day of the siege of Jerusalem.
What happened on the ninth? The Ba'al Hasilichos writes in the selicha for 10 teves titled "Ezkara Matzok" that it is the "yahrtzeit" of Ezra Hasofer. Others explain that it is the yahrtzeit of Yeshu. What doesn't make sense is why would we fast on his Yahrtzeit? What makes much more sense is that it was Yeshu's birthday and in fact the Greek Orthodox celebrate the birthday or what's know as Christmas on January 6th or 7th which usually falls out right around the 9th of Teves. That would explain why it is a fast day and a day of mourning as much of our nation's troubles were outcomes of peoples observance of his birth etc.
I would like to research some Talmudic sources on this man and explore where, according to our tradition, we went wrong and created this "monster"
The Mishna in Sotah says that since Yosi Ben Yoezer and Yosi ben Yochanan died "Batlu Ha'eshkolos". the Gemara in Temurah explains "Eshkolos"= Ish She'hakol Bo, meaning there were nomore great people that were all encompassing in their attributes. The Gemara continues to explain that all the "Eshkolos" that existed in Israel learned Torah like Moshe Rabeinu, and after there were no more "Eshkolos" nobody learned Torah like Moshe Rabeinu anymore. After the period of "Eshkolos" all students were lacking something while until that point students didn't lack anything of their Rebbe's Torah. This means that until the end of the period of the "Eshkolos" (and the Eshkolos, the Gemarah understands is a defined period in Klal Yisrael regarding Torah study) students learned from their Rebbe exactly the way it was taught to his Rebbe etc up until Moshe Rabeinu learned Torah "Mipi Hagvurah" and it was transmitted exactly the way it was learnt. After that period the chain of Rebbe-Talmid and that relationship dynamic seemed to have been broken. From there on out every talmid understood to the best of his ability but there was subjectivity infused into his Torah and it wasn't a pure transmittal anymore.
The first student of the Reb Yosis was Rabbi Yehoshuah ben Prachyia. It would be fair to state that since Reb Yosi was the last of the Eshkolos and Eshkolos meant an exact acceptance and Transmittal of Torah, Rabbi Yehaoshua ben Perachya was the first break in the chain of the Transmission of Torah as it was transmitted "Mipi Hagevurah".
Interestingly, Reb Yehoshua Ben Perachiya's main statement in Avos is "Aseh Lecha Rav" go make for yourself a Rebbe, seemingly realizing that now the chain has been broken and getting the transmission right for here on out will be much more difficult.
The Gemara in Sotah 47b describes the story of the Student of Reb Yehoshua ben Perachiya that misunderstood his Rebbe regarding a certain woman and RYB"P octrisized him.
When he tried to to Teshuva, he again misunderstood RYBP and as the gemara says "Went and stood up a brick" which rashi explains to mean that he built a structure for Avodah Zara. This happened because of a misunderstanding between a rebbe and talmid. The Gemara doesn't say who the Talmid was. There is a further Gemara in Sanhedrin 97b that also starts the same way with elisha but doesn't seem to further elaborate on RYBP which is strange because it is the same Gemara exactly just missing the second half. However, the Chesronos Hashas does include the story of RYBP in the Gemara in Sanhedrin but goes further identifying the Talmid as Yeshu. That would explain why the whole story disappeared from Sanhedrin, it was obviously removed in its entirety by the censors.
The story shows us that the Talmid, Yeshu, did not understand his rebbe and had to inject subjectivity into his understanding. When the Rav-Talmid dynamic is intact as it was during the "Eshkolos" the talmid is simply a recording device. However when this dynamic breaks, the Talmid becomes a living breathing processor of information which can lead to misunderstanding and mistakes.
The Gemara says that the pasuk calls Moshe Rabenu "Ish Elokim" chazal say that his bottom half was "Ish" but the top half of his body was "elokim". Because Moshe was the first human transmitter of Torah he was called Elokim. After him everybody was "Ish" with "Ish" being simply a recording device. However once the "Eshkolos" were no longer, the Talmid who later became a Rebbe could now think of himself as "Elokim" once again if he doesn't fully understand his Rebbe. This is what happened with RYBP and Yeshu. When the Gemara says he went "and created a brick structure" this means figuratively that he created Avodah Zara but the avodah zara was himself. He thought of himself as a God. If one thinks of himself as a "Source" and not simply a transmitter it is very easy for him to become a false God.
What happened on the ninth? The Ba'al Hasilichos writes in the selicha for 10 teves titled "Ezkara Matzok" that it is the "yahrtzeit" of Ezra Hasofer. Others explain that it is the yahrtzeit of Yeshu. What doesn't make sense is why would we fast on his Yahrtzeit? What makes much more sense is that it was Yeshu's birthday and in fact the Greek Orthodox celebrate the birthday or what's know as Christmas on January 6th or 7th which usually falls out right around the 9th of Teves. That would explain why it is a fast day and a day of mourning as much of our nation's troubles were outcomes of peoples observance of his birth etc.
I would like to research some Talmudic sources on this man and explore where, according to our tradition, we went wrong and created this "monster"
The Mishna in Sotah says that since Yosi Ben Yoezer and Yosi ben Yochanan died "Batlu Ha'eshkolos". the Gemara in Temurah explains "Eshkolos"= Ish She'hakol Bo, meaning there were nomore great people that were all encompassing in their attributes. The Gemara continues to explain that all the "Eshkolos" that existed in Israel learned Torah like Moshe Rabeinu, and after there were no more "Eshkolos" nobody learned Torah like Moshe Rabeinu anymore. After the period of "Eshkolos" all students were lacking something while until that point students didn't lack anything of their Rebbe's Torah. This means that until the end of the period of the "Eshkolos" (and the Eshkolos, the Gemarah understands is a defined period in Klal Yisrael regarding Torah study) students learned from their Rebbe exactly the way it was taught to his Rebbe etc up until Moshe Rabeinu learned Torah "Mipi Hagvurah" and it was transmitted exactly the way it was learnt. After that period the chain of Rebbe-Talmid and that relationship dynamic seemed to have been broken. From there on out every talmid understood to the best of his ability but there was subjectivity infused into his Torah and it wasn't a pure transmittal anymore.
The first student of the Reb Yosis was Rabbi Yehoshuah ben Prachyia. It would be fair to state that since Reb Yosi was the last of the Eshkolos and Eshkolos meant an exact acceptance and Transmittal of Torah, Rabbi Yehaoshua ben Perachya was the first break in the chain of the Transmission of Torah as it was transmitted "Mipi Hagevurah".
Interestingly, Reb Yehoshua Ben Perachiya's main statement in Avos is "Aseh Lecha Rav" go make for yourself a Rebbe, seemingly realizing that now the chain has been broken and getting the transmission right for here on out will be much more difficult.
The Gemara in Sotah 47b describes the story of the Student of Reb Yehoshua ben Perachiya that misunderstood his Rebbe regarding a certain woman and RYB"P octrisized him.
When he tried to to Teshuva, he again misunderstood RYBP and as the gemara says "Went and stood up a brick" which rashi explains to mean that he built a structure for Avodah Zara. This happened because of a misunderstanding between a rebbe and talmid. The Gemara doesn't say who the Talmid was. There is a further Gemara in Sanhedrin 97b that also starts the same way with elisha but doesn't seem to further elaborate on RYBP which is strange because it is the same Gemara exactly just missing the second half. However, the Chesronos Hashas does include the story of RYBP in the Gemara in Sanhedrin but goes further identifying the Talmid as Yeshu. That would explain why the whole story disappeared from Sanhedrin, it was obviously removed in its entirety by the censors.
The story shows us that the Talmid, Yeshu, did not understand his rebbe and had to inject subjectivity into his understanding. When the Rav-Talmid dynamic is intact as it was during the "Eshkolos" the talmid is simply a recording device. However when this dynamic breaks, the Talmid becomes a living breathing processor of information which can lead to misunderstanding and mistakes.
The Gemara says that the pasuk calls Moshe Rabenu "Ish Elokim" chazal say that his bottom half was "Ish" but the top half of his body was "elokim". Because Moshe was the first human transmitter of Torah he was called Elokim. After him everybody was "Ish" with "Ish" being simply a recording device. However once the "Eshkolos" were no longer, the Talmid who later became a Rebbe could now think of himself as "Elokim" once again if he doesn't fully understand his Rebbe. This is what happened with RYBP and Yeshu. When the Gemara says he went "and created a brick structure" this means figuratively that he created Avodah Zara but the avodah zara was himself. He thought of himself as a God. If one thinks of himself as a "Source" and not simply a transmitter it is very easy for him to become a false God.
posted by funnyfundamentalist at 5:02 PM
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